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kubi
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Beitrag von kubi »

Toff, no worries, when recording we can always play back the pre recorded tracks at a 1,15% higher speed, record our instruments and slow down the recorded track again by 1,15%, the last step adjusts the root pitch to 435Hz and the length to the original time without any sonical artifacs.

Basic math, we can do that.

Bernd on the other hand could play back the pre recorded tracks at a lower speed to match the pre recorded tracks down to the 435Hz pitch of his piano. Then Bernds recording is to be increased in speed to match 440Hz.

Both ways work perfectly without any artifacs*. Still I find it more exciting to end up with the not so usual 435Hz.


*formants shift, if we need to be correct.
Darius

toff
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Beitrag von toff »

Yeah, of course with changing the tempo while playing this can be done, you are right. :D
You know, I come from an "acoustical world" with a lot of Jazz and "World"music, and there you would rather tune the instruments than change the playback-tempo - because it feels different when playing... but it´s ok, of course.

OffTopic: I guess it is only a misunderstanding, but I have to ask: Concerning artifacts (from pitch shifting) you said "formants shift, if we need to be correct." So, you are saying "artifacts = formants shift".
I´m not sure we are talking about the same thing? Did you ever try to pitch shift an acoustic instrument without changing the tempo, like you can do with Melodyne or Autotune or others? There are those strange artifacts, they sound like noises mixed with digital crap (hard to describe), and I think those artifacts mostly result from the shifting of all those non-formant sounds an acoustic instrument has, like the hammers on the strings in piano, or the glitching of strings on the frets on a guitar - so I don´t think the artifacts ARE formant shifts? Formants are described as the concentration of acoustic energy in particular (narrow) frequency areas which define the "charakter" of a sound - if you shift the formants of a male voice (that would be a formant shift), the voice may sound like a female voice.
So why are you saying that "artifacts = formant shifts"? Two totally different things, as I understand it? Or did you simply want to say that pitch shifting, when done well, is formant shifting?

kubi
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Beitrag von kubi »

Toff, changing pitch without changing tempo or vice versa changing tempo without changing pitch generates digital artifacts, we are fully d'accord here. Same when changing pitch without shifting the formants, same digital artifacts occur.
But changing whole playback speed doesn't result in that digital crap. Remember tape recorders? It's like changing the speed of a reel2reel. The sound slightly changes it's timbre because the formats shift: Voices become more darth vader'ish or like mickey mouse, if you overdo, but there is no (digital) artifacts. Within certain ranges it still sounds very natural.
I was talking about changing the whole playback speed: None of those _typical_digital_ artifacts occur, but shifting of formants does, which I in the end also call artifacts.
Darius

toff
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Beitrag von toff »

Ah, I see it now. My misunderstanding has been in you saying "both ways" - I thought with "both ways" you ment a) pitch shift with changing tempo and b) pitch shifting without changing tempo - but you were only speaking of a).

Oh, and yes, we did lots of demos back in the days with 12 and 16 track analog tape recorders, and if the singer couldn´t get the highest notes easily, we´d change the pitch when recording...

But back to topic now: Making real music :lol:

[silent:arts]
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Beitrag von [silent:arts] »

ok, wer fängt jetzt an? :D
volker
olafmatt hat geschrieben:Strom kann tot machen

bernbrue
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Beitrag von bernbrue »

We need a basic song layout with drum tracks. (Intro, verse, bridge and refrain). 8 or 4 bars for each part. A click track with snare would do as well. I could do such a layout with Addictive drums. As a basis this would be fine. We can use this drumtrack for the mixdown, but we don´t need to.
Shall I start with this?
regards
Bernd

[silent:arts]
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Beitrag von [silent:arts] »

start!
volker
olafmatt hat geschrieben:Strom kann tot machen

kubi
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Beitrag von kubi »

:hello1:
Whoever wants to kick off, just go ahead!
Please, do not debate about structures, just go ahead!
Record the first track and let others decide where they see a bridge, a verse, an intro or whatever else in your track. Please, do not restrict others by setting up specifications. Whatever the first one submits, the others will know how to interpreter and handle it and how to deal with it.
Please to not set up limits for the ones following you.

Simply...
[silent:arts] hat geschrieben:start!
...!

:thumbright:
Darius

bernbrue
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Beitrag von bernbrue »

Shall I put it on Volkers server, when I´m ready?
regards
Bernd

[silent:arts]
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Beitrag von [silent:arts] »

bernbrue hat geschrieben:Shall I put it on Volkers server, when I´m ready?
I still have some computer and server issues at the moment,
once your are ready I should have some fixes or we find another place to upload.

however, I'm with Darius: freestyle!
we may have different versions at the end, which is cool.

best would be enough server space for all versions in separated tracks (server space isn't expensive today, but we should limit us to CD standard - 44.1/16)

my 51x server - as far as I know - should have enough space.
but I haven't many clue about this virtuell and plesc and whatever stuff,
I'm glad I managed some eMail addresses and installing the not existing webshop etc. :D

I might just give all the data and passwords (if I find them) to Darius ...
volker
olafmatt hat geschrieben:Strom kann tot machen

bernbrue
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Beitrag von bernbrue »

Well,
I´m ready with the drums. MP3 format?
regards
Bernd

kubi
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Beitrag von kubi »

bernbrue hat geschrieben:MP3 format?
No, please do not reduce the quality, we will need to further process the signal: Mixdown, Mastering, etc. As Volker said, server space is cheap these days.
I myself prefer 96/32, but 44.1/16 is perfect for any further processing.
Darius

bernbrue
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Beitrag von bernbrue »

Hi Darius,
I made a mixdown in mp3 format since I´m sure there is a good drummer out there who will play along with this beat and deliver authentic material in better quality. Let´s just start with this file and see what happens. It´s just a layout with a few songparts and some breaks and bits at the end. 123bpm is a common tempo to turn the song to any style you like
regards
Bernd

kubi
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Beitrag von kubi »

Awesome, Bernd!

I set up a place for our files, please feel free to upload:
www.soundcloud.com/nrg-rockers

Email-Adress: darius - klammeraffe - kubarth - punkt - com
PW: nrgrecording
Zuletzt geändert von kubi am So Sep 11, 2011 9:00 pm, insgesamt 3-mal geändert.
Darius

[silent:arts]
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Beitrag von [silent:arts] »

bernbrue hat geschrieben:Well,
I´m ready with the drums.
now play piano (on separated tracks)
kubi hat geschrieben:No, please do not reduce the quality, we will need to further process the signal: Mixdown, Mastering, etc. ...
I myself prefer 96/32, but 44.1/16 is perfect for any further processing.
Darius, since it is an experiment, calculation up / download times with unknown rates 44.1/16 is fine, and accepted from each different DAW we know.
192 / 96 Masters and all the other formats can be done with an analogue mixdown :cool:
and we want to see all our DIY gear in there :D

talking DAWs: let us use consolidated soundfiles starting at the beginning up to the end. makes it easier to use in different DAWs.

[sorry for being late in answering ...]
volker
olafmatt hat geschrieben:Strom kann tot machen

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